Website costs - Knowing where to hit...

Posted 24/11/2008 - 22:51 by ng

This story exists in many variants, but the message is the same in all...


This couple was having problems with their plumbing. The plumber got under the sink, looked around, then hit an elbow joint as hard as he could with a hammer, and the problem was solved. The couple was overjoyed and asked how much they owed him. The plumber said $75.25.

The couple said, "That's ridiculous. All you did was hit a pipe with a hammer. We want an itemized bill."

So the plumber took out a piece of paper and wrote out $75.25.

.25 cents for wear and tear on the hammer and $75.00 for knowing where to hit the pipe.

That plumber was smarter than me, I mistakenly tend to charge only for wear and tear on the hammer. In our case, the hammer is paid-for for three months, thanks to member donations.

I believe that the work done on the KsFIoM web-sites to date would be valued somewhere between 6000 and 10,000 pounds by most commercial providers (UK/USA etc, not counting India and such.) Like the plumber, I would be happy to provide an itemised bill if required. When I originally involved myself with this project, I decided to give it a week, maybe two weeks, but a month at most - thereafter I couldn't afford to continue. It's been six weeks.

Really, I am sorry, I would like to be able to continue this but cannot. I have family commitments and such.


  • If any suitably qualified person would like to come forward to offer their services I will happily provide server root password and other low-level information to allow you to take over.

  • I am available to continue to work with the group on a professional basis. I am prepared to half my normal professional fee (the same offer I have made to one other not-for-profit organisation at the moment) but "free" is no longer an option, sorry. My standard rate (for projects of a month or more) is 50 pounds/hour.

  • I will do what I can to find an alternative (read: cheaper) supplier in India or similar lower-cost locations.

Thank you for all those offers of financial support made to date. Stupidly perhaps, I have a problem with "donations" and prefer "professional fees". I trust you will understand.

Your rating: None Average: 4.6 (14 votes)
Go Mann For the first month I

Go Mann

For the first month I spent every afternoon in the British Embassy in Bangkok Thailand petitioning to see the ambassador. I have also had a meeting with the Iceland ammbasador to Thailand.

Sorry I am an expat and cannot have much impact in the UK.

I have tried petitioning the MP from my old constituency but since I have been expat for more than 15 years my pleas fall on deaf ears.

I find many of your post offensive but am not so purile to go and dig them up, you challange me to ak you to be more offensive in posts towards me ... How Childish, go and see your therapist and loose the dummy!

Posted by Mekong on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 16:54
Interesting link NG the

Interesting link NG the first position listed (at my time of checking) offered 34 GBP / Hour for a 6 month contract which falls far short of your claimed 40 GBP / Hour, and I am sure that the requirements of potential applicants are far and above the requirements to maintain this forum.

You are correct, I would never earn 50 GBP / Hour in IT, I would never lower myself to such a position, and why would I want to work in such an industry, IT is just another sub-contract service industry to me, rather akin to Travel agents and insurance companies, just a neccesary evil I have to put up with.

You mention projects, I have just closed out a 1.2 Billion USD project in Oil and Gas Industry and now currently have a 1.7 Billion USD project on my desk, I don't think that I would be able to close them out profitably if I was to accept invoices at 50 GBP / Hour for IT support for a limited website such as this.

FYI I graduated with a degree in computer science before computers were actually known to the masses, I went on to attained my Phd in the same field so I am not some dumb ass ignoramous who buys into MIS percieved self importance and if you think you can pull the wool over my eyes then I feel sorry for you.

I have never said that you are not doing an excellent job, merely stating that you over estimate your own value IMHO, I can't help it if I have my finger on the pulse and can see a bigger pivture than yourself.

Posted by Mekong on Tue, 02/12/2008 - 16:47


Posted by go mann on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 11:37
Mekong: "Show me an IT

Mekong: "Show me an IT Position in the UK paying 50 GBP / Hour"

Take a look at

But you're right, Mekong, 50/hour is not what you could earn. I for sure wouldn't pick you for my project team, and I'm not sure who would.

For everybody else:
Contract rates are one thing (some guarantee of project longevity), ad hoc rates can easily be double contract rates. Being "on call" 24/7 involves a large premium too. So, a project might be 300/day for a 3-month contract could easily become 100/hour or more for ad hoc work, on-call.

All of this is irrelevant though - I'll carry on working on this whilst I can afford to, and will try to provide at least a few weeks notice if I need to drop it in order to take on a better remunerated project.

Posted by ng on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 11:30
And your overall contribution

And your overall contribution to the DAG has been what, Mekong?

I find your post offensive, and you will probably find this one the same. If the latter is not the case, I'm happy to post something more offensive.

Posted by go mann on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 10:23
Show me an IT Position in the

Show me an IT Position in the UK paying 50 GBP / Hour

Most I have seen being offered in London is 300 GBP / day so based on 7.5 Hours / day thats 40 GBP /Hour.

I would not call this forium a website as such, just a Bulletin Board thrown together very crudely with minimal navigation. I could (and I have) set up forums far superior to this with just a few hours work and you expect us to believe that 50GBP / hour is the going rate, I'd be pissed at paying 50p / hour and would expect it completed in less than 5 hours.

Stop trying to make money out of people whom have lost money and are not tech savvy

Fellow depositors check out and see how easy it is to set up a forum before blindly pledging to be robbed by these opportunists

Posted by Mekong on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 07:19
Sami, you are right... as

Sami, you are right... as always, the 80/20 rule applies .. 80% of the required functionality could be achieved with only 20% of the effort (= cost). There are many low-cost solutions (and some free ones) that might be "adequate". If only we had a clear picture of what the future might hold, it would be easier. The advantage here is that we have our own system, own server and basically can add whatever functionality might be needed. For pure "forum" features, there are many other options.

I would never belittle the "80% solution" - some years ago I ran a company which, arguably, sold an "80% solution" product at 20% of the cost of other solutions. But, I'm not convinced that a nett better solution exists for us - specifically because we don't know what we might need next month we have to maintain maximum flexibility - and really we have about the best flexibility available on the planet, with our current Drupal based system.

Posted by ng on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 02:37
In the short-term, I've

In the short-term, I've finally admitted defeat and set this up - please send a blank email to it-donations(?)ksfiomdepositors [dot] org - you should receive an automated reply with further information. I can't bring myself to post the same information here.

In the longer term, setting up the DAG as an "entity" , specifically a "charitable trust" is now underway, and I hope that will make things easier for me.

In some ways I would quite like it if somebody else took over responsibility for the sites and other IT related matters - that responsibility really does add to the stress of having lost (temporarily, please) all you had.

So, I remain highly motivated to do what ever I can to support the other teams and archive our primary objective, and promise that as far as IT-fund contributions are concerned, value for money will be delivered. No matter what the legalities, no matter what financial calculations might indicate, the fact is that we all feel that injustice has been done, don't we? I for one want to see that addressed.

Posted by ng on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 02:23
Jas, thank you especially for

Jas, thank you especially for that. Thanks to ALL who have posted positive support. I will continue to do my very best to provide excellent value for money.

Posted by ng on Mon, 01/12/2008 - 02:13
ng - Considering all the

ng - Considering all the supportive posts on this blog of yours, and posts from others (like Diver's) that imply costs, it seems to me we need someone to take over the problems and administration of costs (both external and for services provided within the group) and members donations - we need someone with accountancy skills to be our funding manager (or some such position). We need to advertise within the group. How do we do that?

Posted by romasanta on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 15:59
Thank you so much for all the

Thank you so much for all the work you are doing. I will be happy to contribute for your professional fees. I don't have any pay pal system but will send you a cheque.

Posted by cupcake on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 14:11
NG, People can contribute to

NG, People can contribute to your fees easily if can you set up a Paypal (personal & premier) accounts? This is to save some fees being deducted from some payments. Keep the personal account maxed out for payments that are bank funded or from paypal balances (no fees deducted) and a premier account for card funded payments and excess contributions to any limit on the personal account. Let us have the email details for the accounts and start getting something back.

I'm quite mindful that professional fees cannot buy what you have created and administer for us. You know that because your work has come out of your own sense of social justice after being robbed yourself, and by using the skills and resources to do something about it for us all. You can't hire someone motivated by profit or their chosen career to do what you have. Your right however, what we have it is created and now must all accept some responsibility to keep it going. I recall that I am member of quite a few forums that require login to see content, but to be able to access membership levels a contribution is required, like min £25.That status then shows up under the username in italics as a 'contrtibuting member'. If I can do this for unnecessary hobbies like my technical forums for car, PDA, or investments etc. There is no excuse to even hesitate offering my fair share of what is right for you.... without question! Anyway As I offered before, I can will help you with server space and an IT guy to help set it up. Its the least I can do.

How can you remain so selfless and to learn oif the many tens of thousands of pounds the Lawyers are getting from members through referrals from your site? Perhaps they all could also be encouraged to take a look in the mirror and examine if they have conscience or not, to contribute something besides words of personal wisdom that helps cover your 'professiomal fees' and expenses and help fund the site .

For what it is worth, when I joined my wife and I pledged this site, is first to be getting a % of anything we might get back too. Any success I have had in my life has come from returns through WIN/WIN business and personal relationships. If people gain while another looses out on their fair share, to another greedy gain, I believe it comes around. Well I must have done someting really wrong cause you can't kick a guy more when they are down as I'm getting caught out with investments in Lehmans, KSF, HBOs, & RBS. I cannot see my way out of it!

Just two months ago I had retirement and moving home to the USA right on my plate following a lifetime of hard work and saving. Most of it is gone now. At first I found it too easy to get lost in this site and almost loose it completely, however after a recent trip the hospitial in ambulance at 05:00 for stress related heart problems, my only way out is trying to count my blessings. I now see I am having a membership with a group of other wounded people, many whom have been much more badly hit.

As long as I am not reading or hearing something from Alistair Darling, I look at the what the site you created has accomplished, and the efforts of those contributing to it and I am very humbled and grateful. Now despite of the discouraging setbacks and angering news everday. I try to step back and look at efforts going on here on this restores my faith in human dignity, intregity, and courage. Thats some thing the financial system and circumstances are also trying to rob from us. .... I have to or I get lost in it, and my own short sighted concerns.

Now please give us an account to start putting something else into this topic besides words!



Posted by Jas III on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 13:55


We are all grateful to the teams. Those who can, will doubtless contribute if we make it easy to do.
Do we have an accountant in the house who can make this happen?
We need an "entity" set up.. a company/charity/whatever.. maybe just a bank account will do..
We need someone to keep faithful accounts and be responsible for paying out to the team members as needed.
We need a way to pay into it with bank transfers/ cheques/ Paypal/ Credit card.

This will cost us something to do BUT it will aleviate so much pressure off the top teams that the benefits will be tremendous..

When it's all over, the accountant can work out refunds to donors.. OR.. perhaps better, we can have a BIG party on the IOM to celebrate!! :-) I, for one, will want to shake some hands and kiss some cheeks!

So.. Is there a volunteer accountant?

Posted by Nixi on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 13:52
Dear ng, A life line for me

Dear ng,

A life line for me since October 8th. Funny how a stranger can become a much needed part of my daily life. Your work on our behalf has been exhaustive and would be more than willing to contribute to the professional fees you so rightly deserve for the work you have done and hopefully will continue to do.

Posted by glen07 on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 12:09
I am mindful of the time that

I am mindful of the time that must have been put into this website and I believe ng should be compensated.

But without wanting to diminish ng's efforts in any way, I would suggest that we at the very least stop and evaluate whether the site we need can be achieved in a simpler way with a service that's already available and without the burden of maintaining the software ourselves.

Earlier this month when I read details of ng's dialogue with stef, it made me question whether there was an easier way. I say this as a software developer (though not a web developer) and feel that we should try to avoid re-inventing the wheel, when there is already a solution available.

I found a site called which charges just a few pounds per month and is essentially a forum. It may not be any good - I really don't know. In contrast what we have here is a site which can be configurable and tailorable by ng, which obviously is so much better. However this comes with a price. It may be that the present site is ideal and the cost is worth paying, but I would say it should be properly considered.

It's just a thought anyway, and I believe ng's site has served us very well.

Posted by sami on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 11:57
Happy to contribute to pay

Happy to contribute to pay your invaluable services.

I am not a direct depositor with KSF IOM, I have money in KSF IOM through a Bond with a Life Insurance Company.

I've contributed to the Legal Fund and will contribute to your fees as soon as you tell us how.

Thank you ng, Diver and the rest of the team for your excellent work.

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 10:59
A membership fee is a very

A membership fee is a very good idea, it may well give us an idea how many off us there really are. However as I have said before we need to become a legal entity with reliable accounting as unfortunately this may not be over for some time.

Posted by nivit on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 10:27
KISS - the go mann suggestion

KISS - the go mann suggestion looks effective

Thanks ng for all your many hours of hard work

The website will be needed by all of us for far longer than we first thought ( those moving deadlines! )
and it seems perfectly reasonable to me that we adopt the approach suggested by go mann in the late on parade posting. Add up the payment required, Nominate a receiving account, We donate

Posted by coldlightofday on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 10:23
PLEASE, PLEASE ng, find a way

PLEASE, PLEASE ng, find a way for us to pay for your services in line with your second option. We need YOU (not a cheap supplier in India) to continue and it's quite clear that many of us are only waiting for the go ahead - and have been for some time. Personally I would hate to see this site invaded by adverts - would much rather pay for it.

Posted by anrigaut on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 08:33
Evening all i think we

Evening all i think we ourselves are the advertisers we must show our appriciation for this site. Thanks again ng for your careing about running this lifeline to so many, and being so honnest regarding your value for money, i wish AD had so much thought for others.

Posted by shafted on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 00:27
Tell me when & how with some

Tell me when & how with some guidelines on what you need and I will subscribe/contribute weekly/monthly/lump sum/standing order etc----just tell us all and we will willingly reduce your stress level and retain your particpation.

Posted by srcoates on Wed, 26/11/2008 - 00:05
Very happy to pay something

Very happy to pay something towards this really has been, and continues to be, a real bonus in what has been, and continues to be a real dog's dinner of a mess. Thanks ng!

Posted by Spongebob on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 22:20
Just a quick note to say

Just a quick note to say thanks for all the positive replies. I will reply again soon with something more specific. I think I need to clarify my own position, both to you folks and to myself. Like many here, no doubt, I am under considerable stress as a result of the financial pressure, and that results in "good days" and "bad days" - I'm sure some, perhaps many of you will know the feeling. I wrote the above on a "bad day". Believe it or not, feeling responsible for maintaining the communication lifeline of a couple of thousand people is more than a little stressful in itself.

I will work on a way forward. The objective will be value-for-money (anybody who's ever been a client of mine will, I believe, tell you that that's what they got.)

Re. funding via advertising, yes I have considered it, and pretty much discarded it as a viable possibility. You have to ask WHO would want to advertise to us? Lawyers perhaps. Web advertising is usually pay-per-click and occasionally pay per impression (display) of the ad. Pay-per-impression might work, I don't think pay-per-click would (what would you click!? bank accounts, pension plans, loans?) May be I should investigate more fully though.

Posted by ng on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 22:09
Please,please,just say the

Please,please,just say the word and i know the money will get to you ASAP.
Everyone of us can do something,beit large or small.It all counts!

Posted by cottesmore on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 21:38
ng You have obviously spent

You have obviously spent an enormous amount of time getting this site up and running, for which, I am sure, we're all extremely grateful.

You obviously work in an environment where everyone is accustomed charge and be charged fees that frequently bear little relationship to the difficulty of the task. I don't, I work in an environment where the final arbiter of my income is market forces and the resultant income can fluctuate widely.

I have seen this forum grow from shortly after its inception. I have commented before that this forum is not the easiest to use. I notice that a link from that post no longer works and this link only takes you to page 13850 and not to my post on it (it's about the eleventh of twelfth down it). I don't subscribe to the view that using computer software is close to rocket science:)

I regularly use another forum, which has over 3,500 members, when I looked this evening there were nearly 200 online over half of which were logged in as members. A few months ago they had problems with servers being slowed to a crawl by the amount of information in the database. The admin team courageously changed to new software and effectively started a new Forum, which works much better. The information on the old Forum is still accessible for reference. After the change to the new software, I did suggest that maybe the admin team would appreciate a subscription (££s) from members but ** they assured me that the small amount of advertising the forum carried provided adequate recompense** for their input.

Have you explored the option of having advertising on the Forum? You might even find someone to take over the running of it, if they could advertise on it.

Please don't feel offended by this post. It is intended to be both appreciative and constructive.

Posted by Peasant on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 21:22
I am only too happy to pay

I am only too happy to pay for your services. Without this site the Action Group would cease to function and that is UNTHINKABLE. I've contributed to the Sefton and the Legal Fund and will contribute to your fees as soon as you tell us how. Thank you for your generosity. By the way, what about other core members, like Teapot, Sleepless night, etc? Surely they must need some funding, too.

Posted by grandmaparis on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 21:07
Thanks again to all core team

Thanks again to all core team i would like to send £50 tomorrow to support NG can you tell me where to send?

Posted by shafted on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 20:28
Nominal = widow's mite =

Nominal = widow's mite = whatever.

We, corporately, will ALL do what we can ... each according to their means and current circumstances, without obligation or "fixed numbers". We all know how much we are all obliged to those who have done so much for the rest of us.

I will not, however, donate my missing £11k as a one-off solution!!! But I KNOW there will support from dozens/hundreds of you once we have the numbers.

Posted by go mann on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 18:49
Thank you NG, Diver and the

Thank you NG, Diver and the rest of the driving team for your commitment to so much excellent work to date.

As other have said, we'd be going mental if this info exchange forum didn't exist so, pls, for all our sakes, do keep it going! It is only natural that you get remunerated and we're prepared to pay but how much do you suggest as a monthly amount? It's no good doing this unless sufficient people support this initiative to keep it going indefinitely so we need a guide from you as to how many people are supporting and what you need from each to undertake to keep it going for at least the foreseeable future. However. I must add that ALL our liquid cash is "frozen" and we're struggling to exist. We have HUGE contractural commitments in a new home we were due to move into but which is now on the market (alas! no buyers around) so, our contribution would, regrettably be nominal at this stage.

We await your guidance.

Posted by Flower on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 18:24
Bobby, i don't follow the

Bobby, i don't follow the logic of that at all. On that premise [ignore the percentage factor, I'll use yours for illustration] ...

  1. I have "lost" £11k, so I should donate £1.
  2. Someone who has lost £750k should donate £75.

But ... i have got 6-figures deposited elsewhere, whereas the second individual may have virtually nothing left. I [as a notional "smaller saver"] will not be priced out, because my KSF deposit was a small fraction of my liquidity.

And you can't force people to donate either. Nor should it even be suggested.
I suggest we all sit back and wait for ng to give me some facts. If the immediate cash requirement is, for argument's sake, £5000, I expect that will be donated within 24 hours ... some giving more, some giving less, according to their PRESENT circumstances and not considering what they HAD in the past.

Posted by go mann on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 15:16
I am prepared to contribute

I am prepared to contribute to the running costs of this website. I am an Independent Financial Adviser with a client caught up in this mess and the information and support provided by you all has been incredibly helpful.

Posted by Hornpipe on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 14:59
1 Without this site, it

1 Without this site, it would be hopeless. I dread opening it up and finding a black page. How do we contact each other if that happens?

2 My postings here are more or less limited to MPs letters. I don’t have the legal, financial or technical expertise to contribute sensibly elsewhere.

3 I’ve contributed to Sefton and legal expenses, and I expect and want to pay toward the time, skills and expenses of those who are leading us.

4 My Pay Pal and cheque book are ready, and just await the word to use them.

Posted by sunny1 on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 14:52
I'm sure ng will provide an

I'm sure ng will provide an indication of how much money is required.

More difficult to ascertain is: how many are "WE".

Are "we" 1500, or 150, or 15 ?

We need a membership fee / levy (eg 0.01% of EACH depositor's balance) to cover reasonable expenses.

The "whip round" approach will not last long, and "smaller" savers will quickly be priced out.

Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 13:11
I've sent ng an email asking

I've sent ng an email asking him to do a bit of background work with the IOM Team and others, and let me know how much we should be contributing to "The Few".

Most of us understand the moral obligation to chip in something, and I know dozens of you have kindly said they will. When ng gets back to me with a figure and some idea of how he and the others would like it processed, I'll come begging for whatever seems necessary [each according to their means, and all that sort of thing].

And as already been said, I agree we don't need to get into any complex accounting process. If we can't trust these folks by now .... ;-)

Save your keyboards ... I'll be back.

Posted by go mann on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 12:53
NG, its time for the users of

NG, its time for the users of this site to give financial support to the leaders where we can afford it. I, like the majority of other site-users, don't know where we would have been without this site. Long sad nights and emotionally charged days were easier because we had somewhere to go to get the latest news, how people perceived the updates, what we needed to do next etc.
I don't know how to manage payment for the leaders but agree with the "keep it simple" approach. I will happily contribute to your time and that of others working so hard for all of us.
Thank you for absolutely everything.

Posted by Anonymous on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 11:51
Your reasoning is sound.

Your reasoning is sound. Totally.

It's just that, when it comes to specifics, 'Generals' like Ng have done tons and tons of the footsoldier dirty work too.

For me, I'd rather look to the ultimate objective than to fine accounting. My view may be narrow and my sight may be short, but at this moment in time I'll happily chuck some unaccountable money at a complete stranger who has helped me incredibly without being asked, and without charge, and now offers to continue to do so at a very reasonable fee.

Posted by ianhkhi on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 11:39
I am happy to contribute to

I am happy to contribute to the costs, I already have done to the legal fund and will do so again, the site establishment and maintenance is a sterling work which has not been paid for, I am very aware of that.

Let us know how as soon as possible and I will make a contribution, as I have made clear I am not a depositor but an IFA representing a depositor who has drawn enormous strength from the site information and updates from the site and the work done by yourself and others in establishing it.

Posted by darrmont on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 11:36
Just let me know how - I am

Just let me know how - I am more than willing to contribute to the invaluable service you and others are providing.

Please don't give up !!

Posted by grobbers on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 11:33
Yes where should we draw the

Yes where should we draw the line? The impact that we have made is not only due to the generals but also the foot soldiers. How is the time of somebody who meets the media more valuable than that of someone who writes the hundreds of letters and emails that give weight to the formers arguments? The truth is one is worth nothing without the other.
The reality is that for most of us our motivation is directly related to the importance to us of the amount of money we have lost and that is what we are working for.
I am not against funding legitimate expenses but it should be a single fund and the accounting should be irreproachable and transparent to the contributors otherwise the risk is that such a fund could be divisive and weaken our resolve.
Those using the fund should be very sensitive in its use given that most of us are a lot poorer than we used to be.

Posted by nivit on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 11:24
Ng, We too will participate

We too will participate as much as we can to help fund this site and all the great work you and the others are doing. The thought of life without it, on top of everything else, made my heart sink. I just don't know what we would have done without it over these past traumatic weeks.
We just await instructions ............

Posted by caledonia on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 10:59
Does my old and tired brain

Does my old and tired brain understand it right that you only want GBP25/hour from now on to continue?

[I don't know why I said 'only'. I walked twenty minutes in blazing sun yesterday solely to get an O.A.P.'s discount on a bus fare, amounting to 25p.]

I have a UK current account in Maidenhead which I have had for 25 years. NatWest - God bless 'em - wouldn't let me open a savings account to put the money in to get a few pence in interest, because I had moved overseas. They wouldn't even let me have a new chequebook without a supreme struggle on my part. But I have one now.

May I send you a UK cheque for a few hours of your time?

I like the irony.

Posted by ianhkhi on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 10:56
Ng We don't comment very

We don't comment very often but rely on the website every day and we really appreciate what you and the other core members are doing. We are happy to contribute what we can to the costs of keeping the fight going. Please consider accepting donations or setting something up to facilitate "paying" those of you who are giving up so much of your time to reach the common goal of getting our money back. Please let those of us that can help in this way do so. Thank you again for all you are doing.

Posted by btandkt on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 10:34
Late on parade, sorry

Late on parade, sorry ng.

There is a risk that we immerse ourselves in a hugely complex, multi-funding, un-auditable situation that could make Icelandic banking look quite straightforward!

Setting aside the Legal Costs subject, which is covered elsewhere, it seems to me perfectly reasonable [sat at my keyboard with a cup of coffee] that we need just 3 things ...

  1. Those who are doing this vital "consultancy" work on behalf of the rest of us simply say what they reckon we should pay them ... "Send me £800" or whatever. Someone then adds it all up to give us, "The Many", an idea of how much we should donate to "The Few".

  2. We then need a nominated receiving account [ng's?] from which consultancy fees, or whatever you want to call them, are paid to The Few.

  3. We donate, according to our means. Some depositors will not pay at all, because they're not website users. Some would, but can't because they have no money. Others will do what they can. One size will not fit all, that's for sure.

Trying to refine this on a proper business footing will take months ... I do believe the KISS Principle should be applied here.

My electric chequebook is loaded and awaiting details of the receiving account!

Posted by go mann on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 10:03
I've already contributed to

I've already contributed to legal representation for 27/11 and am willing to contribute to the fantastic job you've done and will continue to do, NG.

Posted by adambw on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 09:42
There is't a line. All who

There is't a line. All who feel they ought to be paid for their invaluable services to the Group should be. A regular monthly(?) subscription could be paid by those who can still afford it. The amount required needs to be calculated and per capita share indicated. Possibly a poll to establish how many would be willing to pay. I'm in.
You people at the sharp end are doing a fantastic job. Please don't stop.

Posted by mbb on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 08:03
I thought that this was the

I thought that this was the plan that all of us make a payment to fund the costs of running this site? Please let us know how we can do this, and thank you very much for the life line this site provides.

Posted by AnneD on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 07:36
I'm happy to help pay for the

I'm happy to help pay for the work to be continued - please advise.

Posted by alandob on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 07:20
I will be happy to pay for my

I will be happy to pay for my share of this. If anyone can work out how much we each should pay in. It will have to be by regular inter bank transfer to a dedicated account though as the only account I have left is in a third world country which doesn't qualify for paypal

Posted by klauseriksen on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 06:13
NG ........ OK - here is the

NG ........ OK - here is the way I see it... ..There is no need to draw a line .............Everyone who has helped on the website and towards our cause whether it be IT, opening Political doors for Diver, obtaining PR and press coverage, administration, whatever - - they should all be paid a salary from US.
The question then arises "Do they need or want to be paid?" NOW need comes before want --- I understand you may not like the idea of a donation BUT you and others up there have delivered a highly professional service for 6 weeks - and therefore should be PAID for your professional services I actually think £50 / hr is pretty cheap for something like this there are many out there charging more I am sure. If you and others are happy with a half rate invoice then so be it - but that has to be your decision, based on your present level of business, if half rate doesn't "pay the rent" then it has to be higher, there is no alternative. (this is the one area I am good at - running my own business and charging for my services).

I hate to say this but the alternative is we go back to being 8000 individuals not knowing what to do - that, after all we have done as a group is unthinkable - just as not getting my money back is unthinkable. That means Mr Darling has WON!!!

It's time for all of us using this website to PAY for what we are getting. I appreciate that some will be unable to and they shouldn't feel bad about it - they can do something later (or not) I personally don't mind. The need is IMMEDIATE paying you when it's over doesn't help you now........

You need a salary for the hours you have worked as do the PR people and the advisors and administrators. Get together submit your invoice for October and November as set up a Salary fund. If you want someone outside the salaried folk (due to conflict of interest) to administrate the account I am willing to try - I run our family finances and know how internet banking works but this may be more complex - send me an e mail if you think this will work - BUT there should be more than one signatory and I am in China at the moment which may not be convenient. My services would be free. However, I do need to point out that it was my decision to bank with KSF IOM - maybe I have some poor decision rating there for financial affairs!!!

PS -- The Costa is still a goer - just a question of WHEN!

Posted by Julienne on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 04:47
Ng the work you are doing is

Ng the work you are doing is invaluable to us all and in my opinion I believe it is crucial that we do not lose this link. Have discussions with diver, sleeplessnight, teapot and see who you think should be recompensed and in what amount and then let us all know. I don't think you need doubt that there are those of us who will do everything possible to keep this going, you are the ones who have been doing all the work now it is up to us to help repay that dedication.

Thanks again to you all.

Posted by homeless on Tue, 25/11/2008 - 03:50